For the West, Ukraine is represented by Afghanistan because of the lack of real democracy, normal political parties and the alienation of some Ukrainians to a military conflict in the Donbass.

This was told in an interview with Apostrophe by the Swedish volunteer and journalist Jonas Okhman.

"For example, when the Boeing was shot down, everyone was very shocked. And, despite the obviousness of who did this, people are trying to somehow explain this, they are waiting for the results of the investigation. I can honestly say that from conversations with the Americans I realized that they look at Ukraine a bit like Afghanistan. And I was forced to admit that some logic in this is. There is no real democracy in Ukraine, there are no normal political parties either, I generally keep quiet about the oligarchs, we all know about it. Although I often go here and live relatively close, there are things that are still difficult for me to understand. For example, the country is at war, but there are a lot of people who look at it detached, "he says..

At the same time, according to Okhman, for some countries, such as Germany and France, the events in Ukraine are "something far and unpleasant".

"For Scandinavia, Germany, France, for example, the events in Ukraine - it is still something far and unpleasant. But for us, for the Baltic States, this is dangerous in the literal sense of the word. But other Western countries are just a separate planet, I would say. I myself am from Western Europe, I have lived in many states, I speak different languages, and it must be understood that until now Eastern Europe for the West is a territory with other rules, like the Soviet Union or Russia, but at the same time it is not, - says the journalist.

Okhman also shared his impressions of trips to the zone of armed conflict in the Donbass.

"When it was still just beginning, it was simply awful: I went to Debaltsevo, Luganskaya village, Sands, Shirokino. It can be attributed to a psychological breakdown, but I, the calm Swede, when I returned from there, wanted to just grab a can of graffiti and write "ATO" on expensive cars. Now I'm used, of course, but still somehow strange and offensive, "- said the volunteer.