Military photo correspondent Markiyan Lysyko was a hero of many publications, when together with his colleagues, he got out of the so-called green corridor from Ilovaisk. In an interview with the Apostrophe, Markiyan recalled how they got out of the circle, and expressed his opinion as to who was responsible for the Ilovaiskaya tragedy.

- Markiyan, August 29 - anniversary of the Ilovaiskaya tragedy. You witnessed this one of the most tragic pages of the war in the Donbas. What was remembered most from this tragedy?.

- There were a lot of memorable moments. In fact, the density of events at the time of the departure of the column, when the shelling began, was so great that it could be told a week without stopping.

- What was most of the memory?.

- We did not leave Volodymyr directly from volunteers because they were leaving from Ilovaysk on the 29th, and on the evening of the 28th they arrived in the Mnogopolye (village near Ilovaisky), where the units of the APU were based,. The commanders of the volunteers advised us that it would be better when journalists, that is, civilians, would leave with the wounded and doctors. At least at that time, we thought that there would be less shooting. Accordingly, on the 28th we left for the Mnogopilye and stood at the school in the courtyard, where volunteers from Ilovaisk were waiting along with VSUshniki. We were about the middle of the column, and volunteers at about 8:30 am pulled into the end of the column.

At 9 am the whole huge column started. And we waited already from 4 o'clock in the morning. And for us at that time it was very strange that there was no shelling. You could just go out into the yard and smoke. Why strange? Because in Ilovaysk there was no such time to go out and quietly walk around the yard. Always somewhere, something constantly arrived, constantly shot. The yard ran only when necessary. And then - listen to the arrival, consider the time between mines and run where you need to. And then suddenly at 4 o'clock in the morning nobody shot. There was complete silence.

It was also remembered when we stood in the courtyard of the school at four o'clock and formed a column for leaving, another column was passing near us. We then did not understand that it was a separate column, but thought that part of our. But later the fact was that it was another column that went separately. And in that column, to our surprise, there was a lot of equipment - tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, howitzers and other wheeled and caterpillar vehicles - that could fight. Then we thought to ourselves that with such a technique it would still be possible to fight for a long time. In our own column there was mainly infantry.

The fact is that when we were directly in Ilovaisk, we did not see the whole picture and all the available weapons that our troops had. Accordingly, when we saw in the column, how much equipment in total, we ourselves thought that it would be nice to stay on those positions where we stood.

- That is, they could remain in the same Ilovaisk and continue to fight with the invaders?.

- There were a lot of options. There were suspicions that the Russians would not adhere to the agreements and would shoot. Not even Russians, but separatists, because we did not have direct clashes with the Russian army at that time, and we assumed that when you negotiate with the Russian military, he somehow must keep his word. And about the separatists such an opinion was not a priori, and that is why they were more afraid of those people who have not a word, nothing, but are fighting on emotions. So the options worked out a lot.

Why are there many options? There was also not one commander, but several commanders of various divisions, decided by the method of the meeting what and how to do. Some of the column wanted to break through to Ilovaisk, others wanted to fight through another way. But all this was discarded at the stage of discussion, because we did not have the equipment that the enemy beat us with artillery. And when the options were calculated, which way one could go, then they agreed that the military column on the technique that we had as of August 28, could not move quickly. That is, any lightning attacks, counterattacks or breakthroughs could not be due to the lack of rapid technology. Therefore, everyone agreed to this and believed that there would still be a green corridor. Plus all very strongly encouraged that it is not just an agreement between one and the other military, and the agreement at the level of the presidents. Then we thought that from the point of view of the policy of the agreement,.

In the process of forming the column itself, when volunteers from Ilovaisk waited, the VSUshniki in the field blew up ammunition. All the ammunition that could have been taken away was taken away and what could not have been blown up. So, when the ammunition was blown up, we hid behind the garage nearby, so as not to stand in the open field. After a while, from the enemy's side, they began shooting single from Grad's school. We even then said among ourselves that they were shooting, probably so that we could no longer return to school so that we did not have options. Then mines began to fly - first flew far into the field, and then closer and closer. Then I say to Max Levine (photo correspondent), who was behind the wheel: get started and will become in the column, because mines are falling closer and closer. And then already a lot of people started to wind up and fall into place in the column. The column began to thicken, and then the first of the columns began to move. Next, we went to the field and opened fire on us from all the weapons that they had - both small and barrel.

- This mash began before your eyes?.

- Yes. But we did not look back, because it did not have time. Max was behind the wheel, and he was clearly looking at the road, I was sitting on the right. I immediately realized that we were shot from left to right, and armor was frontal, that is, it covered our back and chest. I realized that since bullets and projectiles were flying parallel to the plate, it was necessary to turn around so that in case of which the bullet or the fragment of the projectile hit the plate, and not in the side. Turning to the side of the field, I saw how much all flew in our direction. I immediately turned in the direction of Max, so as not to look at this picture. If it flies, then there's nothing to be done about it.

It was also remembered that it was very well audible how the machine gun works. And we understand that it works in a certain plane, which we have to pass sooner or later. We passed this section tensely, and then we heard the sounds of the machine-gun fire behind us, then we sighed with relief.

As I said, this can be a very long time and a lot to tell.

- Have you seen the death of our soldiers with your own eyes?.

- Directly, to anyone hit or tore up before my eyes - this is not seen. But there were moments when everything was slowing down. For example, you are driving at speed on the road, suddenly something happens and the picture seems to slow down. Here such moments were - even in the first ambush of three, which was in the field, we saw how the shells get into the cars. But since we were in 3-4 cars from the one we hit, we did not see how the guys died or flew out of these cars. We saw only how after the direct hit the cars were on fire. And so there was such a slow picture: when you hit a car and you see a black earth resembling a mixture of burning, soot and oil, which black guys run around, and they realize that no one will stop because the stoppage of the car meant almost her death. Plus, stopping one car meant stopping the whole column. And these guys ran parallel to the column. All this reminded me of some action film. The guys fled and did not shoot, because they did not see where to shoot. Plus, the enemy's artillery. They understood that no one would stop them. I do not know the fate of these guys, I personally did not know them.

Still remember this. When we stopped at Krasnoselskoye, we were facing a tank and a BPM. And there was perfect silence, as if in a theater. The shelling was far behind. The only thing that bothered us was that we were the third, that is, the last in the column. And when the column wants to attack, then they hit the first and last cars. And we constantly turned back, looking, is not it worth anyone with a grenade launcher. And then we joined the "Ural", in the back of which sat our soldiers. When we started to leave, the first hit was in the tank, in which the tower was torn off, and the fragment of the shell ricocheted into the front window of our car. "Ural" went to the left to bypass the tank and blew on the field - the guys flew from the body. I do not even know if they survived and from what they were units. By that time, the column already had a mixture of different units - there were both guys from the battalion "Donbass", and various brigades of the Armed Forces and parts of other volunteer battalions. So, we went to go round this tank to the right, and then overtook and the BMP. And when we bypassed the BMP, we realized that it was moving, but without caterpillars. That is, there was such a hit. After that, we decided that we should take on speed. The Kiev citizen Alexander Radchenko gave us his Infinity car to go to ATO, but he did not know that we would go to Ilovaisk. And thanks to this car we managed to go faster, and we at least had more chances that it would not be a direct hit, like in a tank. And we thought that if we bet on the speed, then even if the projectile hits the wheel, for example, the car will somersault, but out of four someone will survive. Max pressed the gas, and we drove faster - it basically saved us.

In general, the enemy had the ideal position for shooting. On the right and left sides on the sides of the road were the hills on which the soldiers were sitting or standing. And so, when I looked at them, I saw the fire blowing their submachine guns. But I did not understand why they did not get into us, although they shot at us. Later I realized that they did not take aim at preemption. That is, we moved faster than they thought. If they shot at the lead, they would fall into the car, and they shot the car, respectively, the bullets whistled after us. In general, when we left, we had 6 hits in the car. Bullets flew through the hood and got stuck in the panel.

- Did you understand then that this is exactly the Russians shooting?.

- How to say? We knew, but we did not see them.. We did not have direct contact with the Russians. The only thing is that when we were at the school in Ilovaisk, we were in the gym, where all the meetings took place, there were all intelligence reports and commands were given. And we knew that our intelligence reported that there were Russians. And our commanders understood that they were not confronted in the battles with separatists, who simply came out and shot, but with a tactically-literate opponent. They did not know at first that they were Russians, but they said that ordinary people could not learn tactics in 3-5 days. Later, our military saw that they were Russians - and the technology was approaching. We ourselves, when we were traveling, did not see that they were Russians. But the military men who were traveling in the convoy - both volunteers and VSUshniki - saw the Russian military, they knew that they were the ones who fired at him. And when our guys, who were surrounded, surrendered, they were negotiating precisely with the Russian regular army. That is, when there were negotiations between a man from our side and a man from the side of the enemy, then when their person was introduced, he said: "The major of such and such a unit, the army of the Russian Federation".

And volunteers have seen Russians before. Even before the exit from Ilovaysk, the reconnaissance of volunteers was encountered in battles with the Russians on August 26, 27 and 28.

Still there was such situation: when we in the evening on August, 28th have called in in the Multiple space, one of military physicians agreed on the phone with the Russians in order to take out the column of the wounded. There were 2 or 3 cars with the wounded, and our doctor agreed that the Russians missed them. And they supposedly agreed, but in the field the column was fired upon. But they did not shoot at sight - the fire was fired on the roofs of cars. They shot in such a way that people did not get on, but they could wrap up cars. The same evening the column with the wounded returned and those who were there told that they were only firing to force the column.

- When you got out of the boiler, you realized the scale of this tragedy?.

- Firstly, we did not know what was going on there. There were a lot of people. If now, in Kiev on Mikhailovskaya Square, let's say, they would have collected those who were in the column, along with the equipment - this is a huge force of people.

To say that we understood that there all were shot or taken prisoner? At that time, we did not understand this, because it was possible to extinguish such huge power. We knew that we were injured, that we got into the equipment, and someone was killed - but we did not understand the whole scale of the tragedy.

Secondly, at that time we did not analyze what happened. The only thing that was in the process, when we were traveling, and in us stopped shooting, we had only one question - is it possible to tell. After all, something in the war can not be told, and if it is possible, then with a delay. That's when we left, we had this one question.

And here before leaving the environment, we exchanged telephones with a medical girl with the call-sign Murka (Anna Ilyuschenkova). So here in her phone the last dialed call was on my or Max number. And she dialed us and began to say that she was wounded, paralyzed, everyone was beaten, shot, almost no one left and do something. And we realized that we should tell all the journalists whom we know. And we began to call all the journalists whose phones were in the address book. We began to explain, to tell it on live TV channels.

But we only told what we ourselves experienced. And the scale of the tragedy, the number of killed, wounded and captured - at that time we did not know this.

- Four years have passed after the tragedy. In your opinion, by whose fault did all this happen?.

"I will not say whose fault it is, but I will tell you a few facts. First, the information on Ilovaiskaya operation is classified. Secondly, Mr. [the head of the General Staff Viktor] Mouzhenko previously said one thing, but now he says quite another - this is at least the wrong. Thirdly, when we communicate with the relatives of the deceased, that is, at least a few cases when parents were issued documents about the death of his son two days before the green corridor, which said that their son was heading towards Donetsk. Although we know that it is not so - the document of August 27, and we met on the 28th with him in Ilovaisk, and he, I know for sure, walked along the green corridor.

Another story - the call sign "Eighth". He has an official document signed by six colonels of the ATU. This document says that he died in July somewhere near Lisichansk or Severodonetsk. That's how he could have died in July, if in August we photographed him in Ilovaisk? And there were a lot of such dirty facts.

In addition, for four years, none of the state officials expressed their desire and was not present at the commemoration of the victims of August 29. I am referring specifically to Ilovaisku. This year, activists and relatives of the deceased began to initiate that it was a day of remembrance of all those killed. Until now it was a day of memory of the Ilovayskaya tragedy. So, none of the officials showed initiative and did not attend the celebration.

Strong people are able to admit their mistakes, correct them and continue their movement further, and weak people do not recognize them, but begin to deny or otmazyvatsya. In a particular case, I see our state as a weak person who does not admit mistakes. Perhaps he carries out some official investigations, but there are no results. There were tactical errors, miscalculations of the command, or there was a lack of any action, because inaction could also lead to poor results? Nobody says anything about this. I understand that there is a war, perhaps someone for something can not be punished, because the war is still going on. But given what Muzhenko said recently, we have not yet concluded any conclusions.

- As for the actions of the Russian military during the green corridor. It's unlikely that they shot, making independent decisions. Is it possible to name one of the culprits of Ilovaiskaya tragedy the president of the Russian Federation?.

- I can not say specifically. But here you project this story on yourself. You drive through Ukraine, you are taken as a soldier somewhere, without going into details. And when you see the names of the settlements, where there is a Russian letter "Y", then you begin to creep in some doubt. So the Russian soldiers. There are photos where they stand near the sign "Ilovaysk" with the Ukrainian letter "I", which is not in Russian. And they, they say, are dumb, that this is the Rostov region, the city of Donetsk in Russia, and they are on the test site? This can not be. They were given an order. They knew that this was an illegal order, they knew that they were in the territory of another state, they knew they would shoot live people.

Is it specifically Putin's fault? Globally in war - yes. Specifically, in this case? I think this is a complex wine.

Let's take the Second World War. We until recently had production and criminal cases on it. And now it will be even longer for us to go. Why? There immediately it was clear that this is a war, and we in 2014 actually had a real war without the use of aviation, but according to peaceful laws. And there is no such thing anywhere in the world, that is, either there is a war, or it is not. And when there are military actions under the peace laws - this is not entirely correct, to put it mildly.